Everything Counts

Sorry things didn't turn out well :( The feeling is still fresh in my mind and it sucks. I'd see a gastroenterologist about those GI issues. I don't know if there are any that specialize with athletes out there. Good luck figuring it out. You've still got a couple OTQ chances! Ps was Rex shields one of the guys you ran with? You have similar split I think. He also had a disappointing day.

Taylor, I've never met Rex nor do I know what he looks like. But he certainly could've been in the group. He wasn't one of the two that did most of the leading though, they both had several people cheering for them so I learned their names that way, both local I think.

tough day at the races, congrats on a great time dispite the physical problems. How does this time effect your OTQ ? Will you make another attempt at a OTQ ?

bummed for you Riley. You deserve a great race! You certainly have worked hard enough for it... Unfortunately, sometimes it just doesn't go that way. Get that stomach stuff figured out and don't ever give up!

Sorry about your race Riley. Hopefully you'll get it all figured out. I know every time I think I've got the marathon figured out it throws something else at me. It's frustrating knowing your fitness is better than what it shows on race day. Keep after it and never give up.

I have this same problem and have seen doctors many times, they alway come up empty handed (except that I'm hypoglycemic). I have figured out on my own that I was severely magnesium deficient and getting it up has help stabilize my blood sugar. I got a lot of helpful info from a website called the magnesium miracle. Look into it, it's a pretty easy fix.

I feel your disppointment for the tough race and not understanding what was taking place in your body to cause it to rebel the way it did. You are one tough dude, a fierce competitor, and all I can say after a race like this is that you went after it. I have a ton of respect for your commitment and your drive. Hat's off to the endurance builders, the speed work, and the long miles.

I vote you find a 1/2 in about a month and let out some runner rage :)

Riley:

Try experimenting with the diet. Start with the basics. Fruits, vegetables, grains in abundance, meat in moderation. Avoid overly processed foods. Do not eat things that make it uncomfortable to run a couple of miles at 6:30 pace 15 minutes after eating them. Pay attention to how different foods make you feel. You might need to draw some hard lines around what you will or will not eat - it is easy to get drawn into eating like people around you which is often not the best. A common justification is that some super-runner X eats all kinds of stuff, but I put this in the category of the drunk Superman joke - he could still fly even when he was drunk, but when a poor fellow tried to follow him he fell to his death.

There can be another issue involved - overworked heart. When the heart is working at the limit sometimes the symptom is nausea and stomach discomfort. The best treatment for that is balance in training, good sleep, and a heart-friendly diet.

Riley, no suggestions I can think of but congrats on a good race. Throwing up just makes it impossible...just not an indicative race. Seems like something that, once you iron out, will be a blip and you'll be back to insanely fast times and PRs.

Look forward to better - nice job.

Bummer on the stomach stuff! Seems like a touch race with that, the heat, and the wind. Way to gut it out.

Thanks for the comments and input everyone.

I think it may be as simple as I'm dehydrated in these efforts. I take as little water as I can and maybe it's just not enough. Dehydration can lead to nausea and vomiting I think. In the race I took a water cup at almost every station but only drank one ounce tops each time. I do that to avoid GI distress, but it's probably not enough. And on my long runs I don't take any water.

Maybe that's the problem with the throwing up. I don't know. But the mucous buildup is still an issue and could be food related. But I am pretty vigilant on what I eat before the race. I'll keep searching and trying new things until I get this worked out, it's destroyed way too many performances that could've been great.

I believe it's your hydration more than anything else. I wouldn't see a doc about this, I've had GI issues for years until I found out how to manage and train my body to handle taking in more fluids. Of course initially when you are taking in more fluids your body will have issues and not cooperate and continue GI issues, but as you train your gi system, it will get better. I can't take big amounts of fluid at once and I sweat prob more than any runner you've seen so bad combo for endurance running but for example for st George last year, I calculated out my sweat rates and planned intake accordingly 24 oz every 4 miles and I couldn't just chugg it, I sipped the 24 oz bottle down over the course of two miles... So yeah I carried a bottle with me for half the race, but I got through it.... As temps decrease I needed less fluids so other marathons I only needed 24 oz every 7 miles... Same 2 mile intake thing.. Try experimenting with that before going to a GI doc... Just an opinion...

I was hoping that magic number would pop up in my text messages, or a sub-2:20 PR would have been good too.

Is it too early to ask what you plan to do next? Maybe you don't want to think about that and I'll just keeping followin' and see.

Trevor, did you ever have any issues with phlegm buildup when dehydrated?

Yeah, not from the lungs but from deep throat for sure. I wouldn't say it was like green and yellow infected stuff but thick micousy saliva I couldn't even spit it out.

Nice job going big, sorry about the issues. You still ran well and showed your character despite the adversity.

Riley, How hydrated do you think you are before the race? Starting two to three days before a race I start drinking considerably more water to the point where my urine is almost clear. Then the morning of the race I continue drinking up until about an hour before. This seems to work for me because I don't ever drink much during the race, and maybe I don't sweat as much as others. Whatever the issue is I hope you find some solutions. Considering your talent and work ethic this seems to be the only thing holding you back.

Fritz, Riley:

I recall a funny incident prior to Top of Utah 1999 (first year they had it). I was paranoid about hydration due to bad experiences in the past and kept drinking on and on as we rode the bus to the start. Then I had too much liquid in me and some of it had to come out. I realized if I waited any longer the consequences would be tragic. So I asked the bus driver to stop. The runners clapped and cheered as I reentered the bus.

My thoughts on hydration are that if you find yourself needing to worry about it, it is a health issue, likely not something a regular doctor can diagnose - he knows how to treat humans but has little experience with deer/moose/antelopes. Until that health issue is resolved, though, you will not run your best marathon.

For me that health issue got fixed in a way I still do not fully understand. In 2001 I ran 2:33:20 in TOU, I did hit the wall moderately, and I did have to worry about hydration/nutrition. In 2002 the health issue was worse - 2:37:40, fairly hard wall, and I felt terrible after the race. Sometime in 2002 I asked a friend who had served in the same mission with me to give me a blessing. He specifically mentioned diet in the blessing. It took me some time to pick up on it, but I eventually did. It was not the diet alone, but somehow by 2003 the health issue was gone. My stomach became strong enough that it could handle regular food while running, so I figured I would just eat during the race what I normally eat for breakfast - oats, soymilk, and bananas. Not sure if I needed it but that was what I ate (at mile 16). There was no other intake during the race except for a sip of water at 23. The time was 2:27:46, my current TOU PR, no real wall, just some loss of furor, slowest mile was 6:06.

So my current belief based on all the marathons I've run, the good ones and bad, is that when the body is in good health (and running shape) you rely significantly less on what goes in, and will be maybe only a minute slower if you raced a marathon in cool conditions with zero intake as opposed to perfect nutrition. If that makes you 5 or more minutes slower, this is a more fundamental problem than just nutrition/hydration, something is wrong inside.

Fritz, I usually drink quite a bit. I didn't do as well admittedly before Chicago, but I have before other races in which I've thrown up.

It is typical for me to weigh 6-7 pounds less after a long run and that includes usually 16-24 ounces of drink immediately after the run, so really maybe 7-8 pounds. Is that typical or is that on the high end? Trevor you seem to know a lot about sweat rates etc.

I have had several marathons that I've gotten sick like this, been so sick after that I couldn't move for hours. For me heat is a big issue, they where all hot marathons, but if I had trained in the heat it wasn't such an issue. Anyway after trial and error I figured out that I was over hydrating and my salt electrolytes where to diluted. This can be just as bad as under-hydrating (look into hypernatremia). PIf I eat super clean the problem seems to be less and sometimes I don't have it and it doesn't make sense. But my best marathons have been when I'm eating clean, have proper electrolyte intake before and during (I used prolytes forever) the marathon. Also I need some good protein/fat intake durning to help me not bonk.

The marathon distance is very demanding on the body. More than what most give credit and then to run it fast! Nutrition has to be spot on in my opinion.

Yeah, so you estimate your sweat rate the best you can.. Ideally you figure out the temp you are racing in and try and test it at that temperature and those conditions. You weigh yourself without clothes before the run, go run, come back and dry off the best you can and weigh yourself again. So two examples.. You got a 151.8 lb runner = 69 kg (easier in metric) Runner goes and runs for 2 hours and weighs 67.5 kg (148.5 lbs) when he gets back -> 69-67.5kg = 1.5 kg = 1.5 Liters of fluid lost in 2 hours-> 1.5/2 = 0.75L fluid lost/hour. (given he didn't drink anything during the run).

Example 2 - pre run weight = 69kg, post run weight = 66.5 kg and he drank 1 L half way through.... ran 2 hours again... if this is the case you calculate it as 69-66.5 =2.5 kg lost in 2 hours PLUS the 1 L he drank mid run so 3.5 kg or 3.5 Liters of fluid lost total for the 2 hours so you divide out 3.5L / 2 hours = 1.75 L of fluid lost per hour of running..

Note that after 2 kg of fluids is lost (4.4 pounds) performance decreases significantly as a result of dehydration. Other studies have cited a lost of 3% body weight is the indicator of decreased performance so you plan your fluid intake plan around keeping your body away from that neg 2 kg deficit. Also I believe we can train our bodies to work more efficiently under dehydrated conditions, but there isn't much research to back that up... so if you are doing lots of runs without fluid intake, your body may be working more efficiently than one like mine where I'm pretty consistent about fluid intake and my body isn't trained to the depths of despair like dehydration. Other things to keep in mind that once you lose 2.2 pounds of fluids, GI issues are more common during exercise and also if you have increased amounts of fluids that your body isn't used too can create GI issues, however the latter can be trained to an extent. Research also has indicated that greater than 1 L of fluid in the stomach during exercise is uncomfortable and decreases performance due to discomfort, side aches, potential GI issues, so there is a fine balance...

Good info Trevor. Sounds like you have gone to school to learn this stuff :) Keeping a perfect balance seems all too complicated to me so luckily I don't have dehydration and GI problems. As Sasha alluded to, it does seem that there could be something more wrong than just hydration/nutrition because it sounds like you aren't doing anything drastically different than most runners. I guess I would try to get a few more opinions from doctors who have dealt with elite athletes with a similar problem. Those could be hard to find.

If you ran slower than you know you could have, get in another marathon in November. A fast one. This one won't have hit you as hard as if you had run it at potential, so you could probably turn out a surprising good second race.