Everything Counts

I don't think you can really go wrong as long as whatever you decide passes the "is this stupid?" test. A lot of the modern thinking says you should really lock into marathon effort over the last 2-2.5 weeks, teach the body to rely on burning fat instead of glycogen. But then there is also the mental aspect of feeling good after a last interval session, and that's important too (feeling sharp). For example - physiologically, there's nothing a week out from the marathon 5K race does that necessarily provides an advantage - but there's countless anecdotal evidence of that type of thing really working well for people. So I think your best bet is to just do what is going to make you feel confident, as long as it passes the above-mentioned test :-)

Good advice. I have been pouring over online research and I think I've come to the conclusion that I need to do a minimal taper to feel confident. I feel like I recover better than most people and can handle some hard workouts in the last few weeks without jeopardizing my marathon. I just won't do anything crazy.

I agree completely. It's very important to taper, but not too much. But, the reverse is also vitally important -- if you don't taper enough, that's not good either. I plan on striking a balance somewhere in the middle. I think a 10-day taper is important: gradually decreasing miles, intensity, and volume.

I agree with the other gentlemen above. I think there is no problem at all with running 5k/10k pace I would just run less volume or increase the rest a little bit for your workouts. At this point you are just trying to maintain so you want to make sure to not stress the body too much. I don't think you will get much more adaptation with this little time left. So for you if you did 5 x 1 mile at 4:50 with 2:30 rests I see no problem in doing something like 3 x 1 4:50 with 2:30 rest then 4-6 400s even slightly faster. Just my opinion. I am also in favor of the shorter taper. I always freshen up very quickly and feel better off of a short taper.

10 day taper... taper too much to early is bad news. Also, I'm sure you are torn about it, but I'm curious to know if you are planning on running 2 marathons in the next 3 weeks?

Trevor: No, I'm not running TOU. I am registered, but I decided it wasn't worth it. If STG were first and then two weeks later TOU, then I would for sure do the double.

But I decided I needed to choose between trying to win the circuit and trying to run well at STG. I couldn't likely do both effectively.

Once I decided to jog Alta instead of race it, my decision got a lot easier, since winning the circuit would've been tougher after that. Had I chosen to try and win the circuit I would've raced Alta for the extra points and then ran TOU too.

So I put my all my eggs in the STG basket instead. We'll see if I made the right call in about three weeks huh? ;-)

Besides my circuit chances took a huge hit when the Wildcat Half got cancelled, so that helped make it easier to back off the circuit too.

I was hoping you'd side with that decision! You have trained so well for STG, I'd hate to see you even lose 2-3 mins of what you can do there.

I think a sub 220, let alone possibly winning a marathon of that size will be more worth it than a couple hundred bucks. If your family was starving, i might say go the other route, but I think you'll be happier in the end just going all in at STG.

That said, I'm really excited to see what Bret can do at TOU against the people that are going after it.

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how Bret does. I don't know what kind of volume or quality he's putting in. But, running Big Cottonwood last Saturday can't have helped his chances for this Saturday! I would think 2500+ feet of drop over a half would give you some sore quads.

I am also extremely interested to see what kind of shape Seth Pilkington is in. I would guess he's much more fit now than he was for Des News 10k. Then again he's at the mercy of his diabetes, no matter how fit he is. But it will be fun to see how fast he runs.

Then, Jake I don't know how fast you're planning to run this weekend, but I'm interested to see how fast your Saucony buddy can throw down.

It should be a good race, despite most of the elite local guys doing STG.

And who's going to run and win Huntsville Marathon next week for $1,000? I don't know of anyone that is running that. I wouldn't be surprised if Hales bowed out of TOU and did Huntsville instead if his quads are sore. That's a lot of money and I have to think at least one fast guy will show right?

yeah I know I was going to ask who of the weber crew was going to do that one. I was thinking about doing that one actually but since they are only 1 deep for $$ it would be my luck this year to get 2nd anyways haha. If I were bret, I'd just do Huntsville too... plus you have 3500+ elevation drop. Put on the roller skates and go.

Scott is rounding into good shape. He won the Vanderbilt XC invitational against the college kids last weekend. His main goal for the fall is to run the A standard at CIM.

You'd think Bret would have learned from Kotter's pre-TOU Alta quad destruction last year :-)

Huntsville is free money at the moment.

As for me, http://goo.gl/RERBYQ

Yeah it sucks it's only cash for one place. The problem with Huntsville is that it drops like crazy the first half, I mean ALOT. The second half still drops a decent amount, but even it has most the drop early on. So, the last 10k has the least drop and it feels flat or uphill after the steep descents. So the race gets harder and harder mentally as you go which is typical of any marathon, but it's even more amplified at Huntsville.

I haven't raced it but I've run the last 20 miles of the course twice in the last month and it's so easy to roll early on and later in the course you have to really put in an effort to hit pace. And that's starting at mile 7, the first 6 miles that I didn't run drop like over 200 feet each!

I think the total drop is nice, but the distribution of it sucks. But, there is literally no hill in that entire 26.2 miles that is more than 5-10 feet. Oh and the start time of 9:00 AM for Huntsville is horrible too!

Jake: If you ain't first, you're last!

Trevor, if Hales doesn't do Huntsville then the only person that I even remotely know of that is thinking about it is Jason Nance, who ran for Weber last year and was 2nd to me at Bryce Canyon. He mentioned back then in July that he may do it. I haven't seen or talked to him since then. But even if he were running it, I think you would be right there with him. But you'd basically be gambling like $80 to try and win $1,000. And even if you came up short, you'd have your first marathon under your belt and likely a good time too.

Man... Maybe you can give me some insight... this is a tough decision... I could use the 1000 bucks right now (who couldn't right?) as we live off of student loans. Sadly it doesn't fit my training at all as the last 2 weeks were really inconsistent and this week is likely 85 - 90 mpw... My first 20 miler in a long time is this weekend. I think I could put together something around 2:35 - 2:37 (bar no pit stops) on a course like TOU a month from now. If I were to run next week, on that course? I could cruise through 13.1 at a decent clip, but like you said, last part of the course is a bruiser. I feel I'd be death marching by 22. If I knew Nance, K Richardson, Bret (Holt is also unaccounted for for a fall marathon) John Coyle, or any other of the bloggers weren't going to show up, I'd feel confident going in even way out of marathon shape. Any of those guys tops me if we were to race next week. but hey, 2nd gets a night stay in ogden and some shoes, that could take care of hotel for an ogden marathon next year? and it costs about 90 bucks+ for a room anyway... Any insight?

Nance I don't know and I don't have a way to find out really. I hadn't met him until Bryce.

Jason Holt is doing STG.

Brett Hales is doing TOU as far as I know unless he changes last minute (you could wait until after TOU results and see if he runs or not). He's for sure doing one of the two.

Ken is not racing a marathon this fall.

I don't know on Coyle, but I highly doubt he'd step up to a marathon right now. My bet is that he will run the half at Huntsville for $500. But that is just my gut feeling.

Bret Ferrier who trains with us and was 3rd at Bryce is doing the half.

Osguthorpe has a stress fracture right now.

That's all I got for ya. Hope that helps.

And I'd have to check with my wife first, but you could probably stay Friday night in my basement if you needed to the night before Huntsville if you choose to run it.

As for Ogden next year, unless you have a free hotel, just give me a call and we'll find you a place to stay free.

Well... Now you all know what I'm thinking about during class... haha. Thanks for the insight Riley. I've been half tempted to jump in STG for kicks too haha.

you're the man, I'll keep you posted.

Huntsville entry lists are on RunSum, FYI

link? that'd be some helpful info haha thanks Jake.

nm found it.

Well thanks to you guys, I think I might be in. Next is getting approval from my wife.

Trevor, I'm sure you saw Brett didn't run today at TOU. I talked to him and his legs didn't feel up to it yet after Big Cottonwood (duh!), so he's going to do Huntsville now.

yeah, no big deal I hope he wins it. Bret's a heck of a guy. I'll run one later in October with a little more training. After today, I still don't feel preped yet, but whatever, I'm excited to at least just get the distance down to know what it is like a little more.